Forsake Reality - Mix/Master Phaze

Well we believe we've finished the performance part of this project (that's not written in stone), and so we can now move into the final phaze or "Mix/Master". The folder for the separates is at:

4shared.com /dir/12092408/75888b32/Separates.html

And here is a short description of each file posted:




4shared.com /file/88816759/444c79c2/Vox_Echo4.html - This is the 4th echo of the phrase "Im going insane". It's been manually separated from the main vocal to let you manually control the timing, EQ, FX, and pan.

4shared.com /file/88817238/db664b5c/Bass.html - Kenny B's Bass guitar

4shared.com /file/88817704/ff36965f/Clean_Guitar.html - Sean M's clean guitar. This was the initial track posted for this project. Everything else was written around it.

4shared.com /file/88818119/c472b747/Click_Track.html - This is the click track that keeper used to tweak all tracks that needed it. You can skip this unless you really want to hear his click.

4shared.com /file/88819132/d92a6b28/Distorted_Guitar.html - Keeper's distorted guitar (rythm and leads).

4shared.com /file/88820252/b79e47ad/Drum_Kit.html - Keeper's mixed drumkit track. Keeper is going to post separates for this.

4shared.com /file/88821384/522d9187/G1_Backing_Vox__keeper_edit_.html - G1's backing vocal as edited by keeper. G1's original vocal track (unedited) is inside the RAR file that is inside the separates folder.

4shared.com /file/88822409/f3bfde59/Hammond_Organ.html - Keeper's Hammond organ (rythm and lead).

4shared.com /file/88823393/7f5bfdee/Rhodes_Piano.html - Kenny B's Rhodes Piano track.

4shared.com /file/88824322/767f2c0a/Rock_Organ.html - Kenny B's Rock Organ track.

4shared.com /file/88824771/95082129/Vocal.html - Sean M's main vocal track.He's singing the lyrics written by Phil Armstrong.

4shared.com /file/88825189/a07aae03/Vox_Echo1.html - This is the 1st echo of the phrase "Im going insane". It's been
manually separated from the main vocal to let you manually control the
timing, EQ, FX, and pan.

4shared.com /file/88825629/5fda500c/Vox_Echo2.html - This is the 2nd echo of the phrase "Im going insane". It's been
manually separated from the main vocal to let you manually control the
timing, EQ, FX, and pan.


4shared.com /file/88826232/c4afbff7/Vox_Echo3.html - This is the 3rd echo of the phrase "Im going insane". It's been
manually separated from the main vocal to let you manually control the
timing, EQ, FX, and pan.


4shared.com /file/88697645/e7e5234b/FR_Backing_Vox__Insanity.html - This is G1's unedited backing vocals, as well as some orchestration that he auditioned.

You can post your mixes here for discussion, or on the project page or both:

http://fjamstudios.blogspot.com/2009/01/blues-blue-drums-keys-bass-arrangement.html

Here is the OMF. Try this in cubase, or your favorite DAW.


Forsake_Reality_OMFpart1

Forsake_Reality_OMFpart2


Enjoy!

If you post a mix/master track for this project, get a soundclick account and upload it there. Then we can put it in the comparison player with the other mixes and you can click between them quickly and compare, and then comment and discuss. This is how we learn from one another.

- Keeper's Arrangement, Mix, and Master

- Moose's Arrangement, Mix, and Master

I've just posted my production/remix of Forsake Reality for listening:
Let me know how you guys like it.

Thanks!

Moose wrote:I've just posted my production/remix of Forsake Reality for listening:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7370095

Let me know how you guys like it.

Thanks!

I like it Moose! I'm going to try something new with the small button players from SC, in the jukebox, to help put all final mixes on display there. Anyone who posts a final mix at SC can get in on this. Nice work man!

Moose notice the player for your new mix in the thread above this...

Nice work man!

Moose-

Love the new avatar man! Ok so I've setup a system that makes it quite easy to compare differences in mix/arrangement. This forum is to discuss likes and dislikes, but we gotta keep it civil! We've seen many fallouts over mixes. It's silly but it's a very real danger.... So keep that in mind and keep the respect when we critique each other.

Having said that here is the system I've setup for quick comparison. Post your remarks here or on the jukebox page. If we post them elsewhere chances are they won't be seen.

http://fjamfinished.blogspot.com/2009/02/forsake-reality-blues-rock.html

There are things I like about both arrangement/mixes, but in general I like your mix better Moose. Nice treatments! In my mix the backing vocals are easier to hear (which I like). I'm still having a hard time with the orchestra, and to me it's too loud in your mix.

Your guitar and drum treatments I really like! I'm thinking the "s" sound is quite pronounced in your mix on the lead vox. I gotta listen some more.

I want to come back afterwhile and do a new mix myself and try my hand at some of the treatments you put on yours (which I like). Is that a chorus on Sean's guitar? Me likes....

Hammond seems too loud to me on your mix Moose.

We've put the comparison player at the bottom of the first post of this thread to make it easy to find. Here is the direct link to that post. Look at the bottom of this post:

http://fjam.boardsmessage.com/mix-master-f5/forsake-reality-mix-master-phaze-t351.htm

Of course, it's all to taste. I enjoyed your mix as it sits, but I also expect your next one will be a beast (mondo excellent).

I agree that the vocals sound a bit brittle - I was trying too hard to keep from losing the 'in your face pain' that I so loved about Sean's voice on this. I manually edited the volume for each phrase on the original track so I wouldn't have to squash his natural tone with too much compression.

My harmonies got relagated to more of a backseat, because I got the general drift in earlier discussions/mixes that was where all wanted them... and I should not have let that influence me as a producer.

I used an analog enhancer/warmer on Sean's guitar and a chorus.

If you are interested in any of my edits on the raw tracks to play around with, let me know and I'll pack & post them where you can dl.

Noticed your new signature link right away Moose! Smart move there man!


When my money is right I gotta do some upgrades that hurt me for mix/master. I have bottom of the line KRKs (ROKIT5s), which have absolutely no bottom end. It was the cheapest I could get away with and still have reference monitors. I've made up for that with a 300 watt subwoofer inline which is great for setting the foundation of my house but as you might guess terrible for true bass monitoring. So it's always a crapshoot for me with regard to bass, and probably low mids. I've tried to get reference from good mixes and set this sub to be as true as possible. I have to be very careful not to turn it up too much.

So I'm wanting to upgrade my reference monitors, and ditch the sub altogether for mix.

I have HarBAL and the tutorials that I want to get into big time for spectrum analysis and EQ for this stage. I've seen fantastic results with that system.

I want to get better at beefing up the gain on my mixes. I hear a difference in your saturation. My mixes are not quite hot enough yet. I just haven't taken the time it takes for this. I'm doing very basic mix/master at this time. Mostly because of time. The cool thing is I can come back to this and try again. It's part of the fun....


I'm having a lot of it and learning at leaps and bounds... This is a great day and age we live in where everyone on this rock we live on can join in from where ever they live. I'm enjoying this a lot, and I'd like to see more people join in on this...

Don't delete your files people.... I know I won't be.

LOL. Once again, I convinced myself to be unduly influenced. I used to brickwall/slam all my tracks. Then, through listening and reading articles by pros who are fed up with the loss of dynamics I became more concerned with the overall sound than pegging the meters.

When I compared your mix to mine, I saw your track was more pumped - so I went back to my old tools for the final mix and posted a track slammer. So often folks won't get past the volume wars to listen to the sound of a mix. I shouldn't have assumed that here!

I may go back and pull my original master to update my post.

Moose wrote:LOL. Once again, I convinced myself to be unduly influenced. I used to brickwall/slam all my tracks. Then, through listening and reading articles by pros who are fed up with the loss of dynamics I became more concerned with the overall sound than pegging the meters.

When I compared your mix to mine, I saw your track was more pumped - so I went back to my old tools for the final mix and posted a track slammer. So often folks won't get past the volume wars to listen to the sound of a mix. I shouldn't have assumed that here!

I may go back and pull my original master to update my post.

I have a brickwall preset on Ozone Isotope, but I almost never like the way it sounds in the preview. I'm looking forward to learning HARBAL. To be honest with you I've done most of my work with MIX, and not so much with MASTER. I usually pump up the volume manually with SOUNDFORGE, and get it to around -16 DB, and then I go into Ozone Isotope, and use one of their Master Presets. I go through the previews and pick one that suits me and use it to MASTER. It's OK, for now, but I plan to do a lot more indepth studying and testing here in this forum. I'm sure I'll be picking your brain, and building my own routines as well. I have tons of tutorials. I just gotta take the time, and dig in. My equipment is really hurting me ATM, so I haven't worried about it. I'm handicapped at the moment by my reference monitors. Once I make this upgrade, look out!

Even with the corner cutting I'm having a blast. Being able to jump back and forth and compare mixes like this is an eye opener, and is just what the doctor ordered. Now to get more brainy people in on this with us so our overall power of learning jumps up.

I sent out a Mass Invite to the Mix/Master group. Maybe it just takes a little time for folks to jump in. I'm hjopeful!

Keep up the good work Moose! I'm always happy to put other mixes in the comparrison player too. Just say the word.

I have a pretty large list of services that offer the same type of web player as SC if you want the list. I like SC because it's unlimited, but these other services could help in the comparrison player. There is no limit to mixes we can throw in there and compare quickly. It really will help us all to compare. I know it opened my eyes on several things Moose.

My mix is still not slammed like I want, but I want to do it based on frequency analysis rather than presets. The results will be great if we do it right. Hotter signal with more rounded listening. I'm just getting started, and listening all the time man.

On the soundclick admin page it's quite easy to update a posted mp3. It deletes the existing mp3, and lets you relace it with a new track. The ID number for that track remains the same so the same player will then play the updated mix. Can b very useful for changing mixes for the purpose of this forum and final mix/masters.

We are also going to add another window to the comparrison players setup so we can open two players at once. This will allow us to compare middle and ending sections immediately by pausing one, moving the song pointer to where you need to (clock time), and then playing and comparing middle and end sections. The current comarrison setup plays one at a time from the beginning. To me it's great to compare mixes immediately. Having two players open at once and pausing one, is an even better benefit. So look for two player windows to put th players into in the near future.

I'm going to update my FR mix on SC shortly...

FWIW, I've worked quite a bit with Ozone, but have never warmed to it's sound. Both it and Waves L3 seem to add a lot of color after the fact - so much to the point that I started second guessing what would be affected while tweaking the mix. I have been very impressed with Sonnox - they seem much more transparent so that WYSIWYG. But they do offer options for coloration/saturation - you just have to intentionally put it there - and their transient shaper is wonderful for punching up a mushy bass line.

Sonnox - not a spec of cereal in it. 0 grams of saturated fat. LOL

Hi Guys
Just listened to each mix a few times. I dont know producer technical terms to explain what I am hearing. I think Moose's is crisper (dynamic?)with more separation between the differing parts. I think the main vocal (verse) may be slightly high (volume wise)noticeable when the volume is turned up.
Fred, I think your mix is more evenly balanced which seems to make it more forgiving in higher volume.
Difficult to say which is better.... More like different flavors and both a world better than I could do.
Fred, I think having the side by side players would make it easier because of the length of the song. 10 seconds is easy to listen to one than the other and compare. A full 4 or 5 min song is much much harder.

Really appreciate the time spent on this.

Fred, do all posts go here now?